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Hello, dear watchers! So recently my interest has been rekindled in the age-old Trek vs. Wars Debate! In an all-out war between the Federation and the Empire, who do you think would win?
The scenario is:
The Empire is invading the Federation. Victory for the Empire is nothing less than complete conquest. Victory for the Federation is simply halting Imperial aggression in the Milky Way.
The Empire has no other concerns. All assets sicced on Federation.
The Empire has Federation starcharts.
The Empire has a completed Death Star 2 and the Executor. No other superweapons.
Both Palpaltine and Vader lead the invasion, but are the only Force users the Empire has at their disposal.
The Federation is unconcerned with intergalactic weapons treaties. The kiddy gloves are off.
The Federation is fighting on home turf.
The Federation has no other concerns. All assets are allocated to defense and counter-attacks.
The Federation has assets ranging from TOS-era to 29th century timeships which are lending their aid to a beleaguered VOY/DS9-Era Federation.
The Klingons are the Federation's allies, and as such will lend occasional aid.
Distinct Advantages:
Federation
-Time Travel ships and weapons that the Empire has no counter for.
-Telepathy and Telekinesis are relatively commonplace among certain species.
-Ships and crew are more versatile and adaptable.
Empire
-Two powerful Force Users, Vader and Palpaltine.
-Ships outmass Federation ships
-Executor
-Death Star 2
"Hero" Units:
Federation
-Captain Jean-Luc Picard
-Captain Katherine Janeway
-Commander Benjamin Sisko
-Ambassador Spock
-Lieutenant Commander Data
Empire
-Darth Sidious
-Darth Vader
Other details:
The warfare has attracted the ire of the Cardassian Union and the Romulan Star Empire, who don't appreciate fighting so close to their territory.
The Empire and Federation are subject to hazards in Federation space, including but not limited to:
-The Crystalline Entity
-The Q
-And tons of other random-ass shit which tried to kill the Enterprise crew every other episode. Unless you're a name character with plot armor, the chances of losing a ship to such anomalies is 100%.
With that in mind, who would win?
The scenario is:
The Empire is invading the Federation. Victory for the Empire is nothing less than complete conquest. Victory for the Federation is simply halting Imperial aggression in the Milky Way.
The Empire has no other concerns. All assets sicced on Federation.
The Empire has Federation starcharts.
The Empire has a completed Death Star 2 and the Executor. No other superweapons.
Both Palpaltine and Vader lead the invasion, but are the only Force users the Empire has at their disposal.
The Federation is unconcerned with intergalactic weapons treaties. The kiddy gloves are off.
The Federation is fighting on home turf.
The Federation has no other concerns. All assets are allocated to defense and counter-attacks.
The Federation has assets ranging from TOS-era to 29th century timeships which are lending their aid to a beleaguered VOY/DS9-Era Federation.
The Klingons are the Federation's allies, and as such will lend occasional aid.
Distinct Advantages:
Federation
-Time Travel ships and weapons that the Empire has no counter for.
-Telepathy and Telekinesis are relatively commonplace among certain species.
-Ships and crew are more versatile and adaptable.
Empire
-Two powerful Force Users, Vader and Palpaltine.
-Ships outmass Federation ships
-Executor
-Death Star 2
"Hero" Units:
Federation
-Captain Jean-Luc Picard
-Captain Katherine Janeway
-Commander Benjamin Sisko
-Ambassador Spock
-Lieutenant Commander Data
Empire
-Darth Sidious
-Darth Vader
Other details:
The warfare has attracted the ire of the Cardassian Union and the Romulan Star Empire, who don't appreciate fighting so close to their territory.
The Empire and Federation are subject to hazards in Federation space, including but not limited to:
-The Crystalline Entity
-The Q
-And tons of other random-ass shit which tried to kill the Enterprise crew every other episode. Unless you're a name character with plot armor, the chances of losing a ship to such anomalies is 100%.
With that in mind, who would win?
Cleaning Up
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I just finished Mass Effect 3
Only three words.
WHAT. THE. FUCK.
WHAT IS UP WITH THIS GODDAMN STARCHILD CATALYST BIOWARE I'LL NEVER BUY FROM YOU AGAIN!!!
TheBleachDoctor swore as he purchased the Citadel DLC.
Two years, Seven days...
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Everyday I'm Homestucking.
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Firmus Piett - from YouTube. Followed your link through, lol.
Why the Empire of-course
these civilizations are simply of different magnitude. Even the Borg collective is dwarfed by the Empire, by a factor of one-thousand.
Here's the biggest and most overwhelming advantage: FTL speed.
In star wars ships invariably cross the galaxy within the same day (in the films). Obi-Wan flew from Coruscant, near the core of the main galaxy, to Kamino in a satellite galaxy in a one man starfighter with no bathroom. No gameboy. No crisps. Meanwhile the entire plot line of Voyager was based around the non trans-galactic FTL capabilities of the Federation: it takes them decades to cross their own galaxy, sometimes even weeks or months to cross their own 8000 LY territory. In-fact FTL speed is so fast in star wars that war-fleets could even outrace Federation communications! a Star Destroyer could drop out of hyperspace, stone age a colony and leave before anybody even hears about it! In-fact, given that there's often days or weeks delay between distress signals being sent and received, a star destroyer could probably do this to several systems before anybody even hears about the first, let alone the second, third or fourth.
And indeed most Federation planets lack any ships in orbit. But even if there were, current evidence implies any ship to ship combat would be very sided. To avoid destruction Federation ships would be forced to retreat or to warp-strafe their more powerful opponents, but with the sheer power disadvantage they could never hope to defeat the shields of a star destroyer before it has either finished bombarding a world to slag or deploying its invasion forces. Of-course they could use their firepower to engage imperial forces on the ground, but when the only use for your capital ships guns are shooting your own planets it's kinda telling who's winning this
Really now, to go would be quite trivial. Imperial ships outnumber Federation ones thousands to one, they can replace them faster than the Federation could destroy them even if the Federation ships were 100x more powerful, and any ground combat would be totally one-sided. The only limitation to the time it would take the Empire to conquer the Federation is mapping, which does take time. But seeing as you already gave them the charts they could simply send a 100 ships to every main Federation planet (thats only a similar amount of ships to what were present at Coruscant - several thousands) and either invade or bombard. The war could be over in as little as a day, and given the circumstances I doubt the Federation officials would resist.
The circumstances remain the same regardless of how many races you add, even the borg. The borg are fast in their conduits, but those are limited to point to point jumps. Outside of those conduits their slow like everybody else, they are still hopelessly outgunned in space, slaughtered on the ground and outnumbered by orders of magnitude. Only the hand of God like beings could prevent the Empire from destroying the civilizations of the Milky Way - if that was the Empires goal.
Why the Empire of-course
these civilizations are simply of different magnitude. Even the Borg collective is dwarfed by the Empire, by a factor of one-thousand. Here's the biggest and most overwhelming advantage: FTL speed.
In star wars ships invariably cross the galaxy within the same day (in the films). Obi-Wan flew from Coruscant, near the core of the main galaxy, to Kamino in a satellite galaxy in a one man starfighter with no bathroom. No gameboy. No crisps. Meanwhile the entire plot line of Voyager was based around the non trans-galactic FTL capabilities of the Federation: it takes them decades to cross their own galaxy, sometimes even weeks or months to cross their own 8000 LY territory. In-fact FTL speed is so fast in star wars that war-fleets could even outrace Federation communications! a Star Destroyer could drop out of hyperspace, stone age a colony and leave before anybody even hears about it! In-fact, given that there's often days or weeks delay between distress signals being sent and received, a star destroyer could probably do this to several systems before anybody even hears about the first, let alone the second, third or fourth.
And indeed most Federation planets lack any ships in orbit. But even if there were, current evidence implies any ship to ship combat would be very sided. To avoid destruction Federation ships would be forced to retreat or to warp-strafe their more powerful opponents, but with the sheer power disadvantage they could never hope to defeat the shields of a star destroyer before it has either finished bombarding a world to slag or deploying its invasion forces. Of-course they could use their firepower to engage imperial forces on the ground, but when the only use for your capital ships guns are shooting your own planets it's kinda telling who's winning this
Really now, to go would be quite trivial. Imperial ships outnumber Federation ones thousands to one, they can replace them faster than the Federation could destroy them even if the Federation ships were 100x more powerful, and any ground combat would be totally one-sided. The only limitation to the time it would take the Empire to conquer the Federation is mapping, which does take time. But seeing as you already gave them the charts they could simply send a 100 ships to every main Federation planet (thats only a similar amount of ships to what were present at Coruscant - several thousands) and either invade or bombard. The war could be over in as little as a day, and given the circumstances I doubt the Federation officials would resist.
The circumstances remain the same regardless of how many races you add, even the borg. The borg are fast in their conduits, but those are limited to point to point jumps. Outside of those conduits their slow like everybody else, they are still hopelessly outgunned in space, slaughtered on the ground and outnumbered by orders of magnitude. Only the hand of God like beings could prevent the Empire from destroying the civilizations of the Milky Way - if that was the Empires goal.